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Sabrina59
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Post by Sabrina59 »

Very true, wiseguy. I am the first to admit that I don't have the experience that you, BD, and others have. I'm pretty much a baby to running shows and I've only been a karaoke junkie for about five years.

All I can draw on is what I have seen at my show, and other shows I have attended over the years.

That's one of the reasons I am so glad I found this forum and have asked for advice so often. If y'all are willing to "train" me, and it doesn't cost me anything, I'd be fool not to take advantage of it. :lol:

I have read real scenarios on this forum that just amaze me. I fail to understand why some folks think it is okay to try to circumvent the rotation rules.

Having these rules in place is all well and good. However ... Johnny already sang his song, and with a group as well. Now another member of his group is singing but wants Johnny to sing with him. How do you keep Johnny's friends from handing him the mic once the song has started?

srnitynow wrote:First, I'm new to this forum, so Hi to all. Now, to the subject. I have a rule in the front of my songbook that states, "each singer sings ONCE per rotation, with the exception of singing a duet requested by ANOTHER singer. In this way, the MOST anyone gets to sing is twice in a rotation, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE. So, if Susie sings her song, then Johnny wants her to sing Summer Nights, Susie gets to sing twice, AND SHE'S DONE.
Welcome to the forum, Rosario! :welcome:

What do you do if several people want Susie to sing duets with them?


Sabrina the Cat
srnitynow
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Post by srnitynow »

Very easy, Susie can sing a duet with the next person in the NEXT rotation. As I said, one by herself, one as a duet. Although I don't like the idea of someone singing 2 songs EVERY rotation, I will allow it, because I have set the rules, and I have to stick to them ALSO. :lol:

Rosario
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

srnitynow wrote:First, I'm new to this forum, so Hi to all. Now, to the subject. I have a rule in the front of my songbook that states, "each singer sings ONCE per rotation, with the exception of singing a duet requested by ANOTHER singer. In this way, the MOST anyone gets to sing is twice in a rotation, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE. So, if Susie sings her song, then Johnny wants her to sing Summer Nights, Susie gets to sing twice, AND SHE'S DONE.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke
Welcome to the forum!

I consider your system to be workable. Unlike Bigdog's system, you are preventing any one person from totally hijacking the rotation.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

srnitynow wrote:First, I'm new to this forum, so Hi to all. Now, to the subject. I have a rule in the front of my songbook that states, "each singer sings ONCE per rotation, with the exception of singing a duet requested by ANOTHER singer. In this way, the MOST anyone gets to sing is twice in a rotation, NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES ARE. So, if Susie sings her song, then Johnny wants her to sing Summer Nights, Susie gets to sing twice, AND SHE'S DONE.

Rosario
Serenity Now Karaoke
What do you do when 4 singers down the line Frank wants to do his duet song with Susie too? So now she sings 3 times in the rotation. Or do you tell him she is done? Remember it's not her song it's Franks. Should Frank be told to find a different singer or sing a solo song this round and do the duet next one?

If there are such things happening in one of my rotations and the singers have other songs they have put in, I will (play GOD and) switch a solo song for the duet to spare the rest of the singers from seeing Susie sing a 3rd or 4th time. Again I am OK with her actually singing again because it's not her song but if I can avoid it I will do so.

But I am not comfortable telling anyone who they can or can not sing with and when.
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

wiseguy wrote:Sabrina, with all due respect, you have been performing karaoke for a short time in only one location. You have not witnessed the diversity of people and locations that those of us that have been in this business for years have. You will in time learn the sneaky tricks that people will use to cheat your rotation system.

Bigdog, tell me how you would handle this scenario. It's not one I made up. The names have been changed to protect the idiots.

You have a rotation of ten singers. Johnny, a known karaoke junkie, comes in with five friends. Johnny turns in a slip that has Johnny and Crew as the name. When you call him up he and the other five all come up but during the song only Johnny is singing and the others just stand there holding a mic or dance around. Now each of the five friends turn in a slip with their name first (i.e. Dave and Crew) but each time Johnny is the only one who sings. Johnny just got to sing six out of the sixteen songs in that rotation and he's fixing to do the same thing in the next rotation. It's totally obvious to the other singers what Johnny is doing and at this point thy are are looking at you as to say WTF.
Once I see what is actually happeneing, I (play GOD and) from then on all the slips they (he) turns in go on one pile, Johnnys and he will come up once in a rotation. He is clearly trying to fool me. :nonod:

Now if they are spending lots of money, I may depending on the type of music they are singing :shock: and how they are acting, :shock: they might get a second singing opportunity per rotation. To keep them there spending money. I usually don't get any complaints from them. They may come up and ask several times when X song is coming up. I tell them it's their next song. Ha, ha, ha ,ha......I will then find that slip and put it on for their next song. Keeps them happy and I look cool. 8) They are happy and the rest of the singers don't see them over doing anything. Win, win.

Again, I run my show. I try to be as fair as humanly possible to each and every person in the bar. Without penalties. If you try to trick me, there are penalties that I impose as the one I just described. I really don't think I'm doing Johnny wrong. He is trying to beat the rotation and take advantage of my fairness. :twisted: I "compenstate" :billyclub: for his ignorance. :lol:

What's Johnny age group? Or do I already know??? :shock: :lol: Mature singers don't pull tricks like that.... :roll:

Could be one of the drawbacks of a free for all show. :deadhorse:
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

:welcome: rosario...
Sabrina59
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Post by Sabrina59 »

Sabrina59 wrote:Having these rules in place is all well and good. However ... Johnny already sang his song, and with a group as well. Now another member of his group is singing but wants Johnny to sing with him. How do you keep Johnny's friends from handing him the mic once the song has started?
Anyone?
Sabrina the Cat
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Once I see what is actually happeneing, I (play GOD and) from then on all the slips they (he) turns in go on one pile, Johnnys and he will come up once in a rotation. He is clearly trying to fool me.
This is what I mean by "applying the rotation rules on a case by case basis". If you stood fast to your professed rules then Johnny would get away with hijacking the rotation.

My singer rotation is unbreakable. Nobody can ever cheat my rotation. When the "rotation cheaters" enter a bar around here and see that it's me doing the karaoke they usually just turn around and leave. This always brings a smile to my face as I certainly don't want or need them around.
What's Johnny age group? Or do I already know??? Mature singers don't pull tricks like that....
The group in the scenario range in age from late twenties to early thirties (the average age of most of my crowds).

I keep forgetting that you cater to the geriatric crowd. They probably don't have the energy to cheat the rotation. :lol:
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Having these rules in place is all well and good. However ... Johnny already sang his song, and with a group as well. Now another member of his group is singing but wants Johnny to sing with him. How do you keep Johnny's friends from handing him the mic once the song has started?
I pass out as many as four mics when a group is singing. When Johnny comes up again to another group members song he will not get a mic. If someone hands him their mic I will shut that mic down. So now if nobody is singing into a mic it's clear what is going on and I'll stop the song and call up another singer.
Sabrina59
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Post by Sabrina59 »

Wow. I don't know if I could do that. Maybe I'm too nice for my own good ... or too new to running shows.
Sabrina the Cat
Bigdog
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Post by Bigdog »

I keep forgetting that you cater to the geriatric crowd. They probably don't have the energy to cheat the rotation.

That's why they all want to sing American Pie so the spotlight shines on them longer. They have to use sunscreen to protect them from the harmful rays of the stage lights. :lol: The want to sneak in every extra minute possible...it could be their late number. :shock:

21ers to 30 are the sneaking, lying cheating age group. :lol: It's all that untamed testosterone thing. Show offs. Look at me mom... :P

I had your exact scenareo tonight. 12 people in a familty get together to celebrate a wedding on saturday. They drank like fish. The "life" of the party jumped around like a nut while he sang. And he sang in several other peoples songs. The crowd actually got into him and his "style" of singing. Had several slips from them that had multiple names in different order. I used my selection method. 5 main singers in the group and the rest "helped." I had 30 singers and if they all would have stayed I would have hit 35-40. Not one person in the bar said one word about the rotation or the wedding crowd multiple singers and singing slots. Nobody got mad and left and I didn't get beat up. The wedding singers crowd didn't get mad and infact serveral of them shook my hand and introduced themselves and complimented me on my show. :shock:

I think you are way too worried about the Duet penalty clause. I'm being honest there really are not as many complaints about me rotation as you would think. The norm is not a night full of rotation beaters trying to out fox me all night.

Maybe I can get away with it because I run the music nonstop. Whenever people see Bob and Susie taking their time walking up to the designated stage area multiple times during the rotation to sing their duets and solos it gets more noticed. Since my singers are hidden in the crowd all around the bar people actually have to make an effort to see who is singing.

The one name announcement also helps. Can't blame Susie if they didn't hear her name 30 times. Once per rotation like every other singer. A girl asked me to sing with her tonight. I did and when I was done I only announced her name. But everyone knew it was her song, not mine. If it was my song and I asked someone to sing it with me I would have thanked them for helping me. So everyone knew it was my song and not hers.

It's all in how you deliver the news. Hey how come Bob is singing again? Well I only heard him say Susie's name at the end.

What is the only conclusion they can come to if they only hear one name?

That was Susies song, not Bobs. He becomes a ghost without a name.

It's karaoke not feed the world and someone took 2 life saving meals instead of one. So someone will starve to death. Get a grip. I seriously do not think thousands of singers are getting upset over someone singing a duet on someone elses slip and then them singing solo on their turn. People all can't be that stupid....let me think about that a minute.. :lol:

You may as well delete your "duet" section and don't buy anymore because nobody is using it. Save the ink and paper and use thinner binders. $$$$$

About the number of microphones. I found out one important lesson about that. The more microphones being used during a "group" song, the more noise you have. Usually they are not all singing the same words at the same time. So it gets all jumbled up. I try to give them 2 microphones, three tops. That's all I use. I don't want them having anymore than that. Not because I'm cheap. If I wanted to run 20 cordless microphones I could and would. Less microphones equals less distortion during the unsyncronized singing. Too many cooks spoil the soup. To many untrained singers spoil the song mix.

The only way I shut off a microphone is if they are only screaming or they have put it down or they are not singing into it. No penalty shut down.

Handing out all those microphones give Bob that many more chances to be seen singing. The odds of him ending up with one every song is greater. Less microphones per group. 3 works good for me. I use to only use 2 for 10 years. The extra one makes it a lot nicer but that's my limit.
mnementh
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Post by mnementh »

I have to admit that this thread is intriguing me, to say the least because of one simple problem that, as far as I can see has been glaringly sidelined!

Has any one actually DEFINED what a "rotation" is?

Obviously, the first "rotation" starts when the first punter puts his/her name down but when does the "rotation" actually end?

Is it when there is a gap in singers coming up?

Do you have a predetermined number, e.g. 10 and any singer is told that he/she can't sing a solo again untill the first list of 10 singers have been up?

Obviously, this would cause issues with the previous scenario, if a longish gap arose and a singer is waiting.

I was under the impression that "rotations" were dynamic and basically rolled round and round, with singers coming in and dropping out, all the time.

Just acting as "Devil's Advocate", dont'cha know! :evil:

Sandy
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

mnementh wrote:I was under the impression that "rotations" were dynamic and basically rolled round and round, with singers coming in and dropping out, all the time.
This is true of course. My rotation ends when every singer that I have an active song slip from has sung once. New singers are always worked into the current rotation. If you are singing a duet you may not sing with someone who has already used their turn in the current rotation.
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wiseguy
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Post by wiseguy »

Sabrina59 wrote:Wow. I don't know if I could do that. Maybe I'm too nice for my own good ... or too new to running shows.
Save "nice" for those who respect your rules. The others don't deserve it. I've seen KJs totally loose control of their show because they were too nice.
srnitynow
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Post by srnitynow »

In answer to Bigdog's question, If Frank wants to sing with Susie, it'll have to be in the NEXT rotation. I'd probably tell him to hurry and get a slip in with Susie for the NEXT rotation, because she seems to be pretty popular tonight. In this manner, it doesn't become the SUSIE show, or anyone elses show. I've seen it happen where a few people will come in and want to take over the show. With me IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN. You get ONE song by yourself, and ONE duet PERIOD. If anyone questions this, I tell them to look in the front of my songbook at the rules, they apply to EVERYONE.

Rosario
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